Daily Kos

'Morally Prohibited'

by aaraujo

Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:34:38 PM PDT

"...I simply can't side with somebody who participated,
whether willingly or unknowingly, as she claims,
in something that has been so evil."

-- Michael Moore on Larry King Live

CNN Video

Michael Moore Can’t Support Hillary Clinton

AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF MILITARY FORCE AGAINST IRAQ RESOLUTION OF 2002

It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security.

Now this much is undisputed.

http://clinton.senate.gov/...

President George W. Bush was the instigator of the Iraq War but Senator Hillary Clinton was just as complacent because the choice to go to war was the popular path of action in 2002.

Barack Obama stood up against the war when public sentiment was against him.

I agree with Mr Moore, I am morally prohibited to allow myself to vote for Hillary Clinton.  If in November, my choices are John McCain or Hillary Clinton, I shall abstain from voting for President as my peaceful protest against the decision to go to war in Iraq.

Tags: Michael Moore, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Iraq War, 2002 (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 70 comments

  •  Peace (8+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    cookiesandmilk, theran, stridergambit, juliesie, Inland, Empower Ink, Judgment at Nuremberg, Rachel Griffiths

    John W. McCain, Bush's third term.

    by aaraujo on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:35:18 PM PDT

  •  He said in the primary, chico. (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    NogodsnomastersMary

    In the primary.

    John McCain says he'd be happy to see our troops in Iraq for another hundred years. I just can't agree with that.

    by Barry in MIA on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:37:21 PM PDT

  •  Likewise. I have been saying this a long time. (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    stridergambit

    I simply cannot vote for her.  You can give me all the nightmare scenarios you want about a McCain White House, but I find both Hillary and McCain morally repugnant, and therefore won't take the affirmative action of voting for either.  Sometimes it's better to say f*ck the both of them and the horses they rode in on.

    by Man in Black on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:38:18 PM PDT

  •  It's not just Iraq that makes Clinton a no (0+ / 0-)

    for me...its Iraq and so many other things.

    At the core of the human spirit there is a voice stronger than violence and fear - S. dianna ortiz

    by Rachel Griffiths on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:39:59 PM PDT

  •  I am prohibited from giving you anymore money. (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    dadanation, dogheaven

    You ran for office, I gave you a donation.  I have regretted it since.

    You are the most unlikely speaker for Senator Obama that I have ever met.

    Flame away, but you have always gone way beyond the pale in my book.

    Sincerely,

    panicbean

    Good feet giving up good boots. http://www.bringthemhomenow.org/

    by panicbean on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:41:17 PM PDT

    •  I'm sorry but the Iraq War (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      stridergambit, Judgment at Nuremberg

      has been been my driving force since 2002

      John W. McCain, Bush's third term.

      by aaraujo on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:43:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You are sorry, that is for sure. (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        dadanation, YatPundit

        But your driving force has been any Democratic nominee but Obama since you stood your first ground.

        But you have offended me, and you have offended many others, and most will not speak, but I will.

        I am offended by you.  Simply put, I am offended, and I may yet vote for Obama, but certainly not because of you, in spite of you is more like it.

        You ran for office and you had many of us donate money for you, and you pleasured yourself with that, I remember it well.

        So who the hell nominated you the hill of the Obama camgaigne, because I want to voice a complaint.

        You are agianst the Iraq war? Heh.  You need a bigger banner.

        Sincerely

        panicbean

        Good feet giving up good boots. http://www.bringthemhomenow.org/

        by panicbean on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:52:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm volunteering locally for Obama (0+ / 0-)

          and donating more money than I raised for my own failed campaign (which was a grand total of about $200 which I deeply thank you for) but that's all.  

          For the last several years, i have viewed the political world through the prism of the Iraq War.  

          I just got back from another school meeting tonight where the talk was about budget cuts, downsizing, teacher layoffs, etc.

          All of that, comes back to funds being depleted from the federal level because of Iraq.

          This war frustrates and angers me more everyday.

          John W. McCain, Bush's third term.

          by aaraujo on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:00:08 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  While you state your local efforts here, (0+ / 0-)

            and they are to be admired, I wonder about your national efforts.

            If you brow beat your opponents like you do us at the kos, I suspect you are not a likely candidate, no matter what your position on the war is.

            Sincerely,

            panicbean

            Good feet giving up good boots. http://www.bringthemhomenow.org/

            by panicbean on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:14:21 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Act locally, think globaly (0+ / 0-)

              locally (and I expect nationally) we are in a budget meltdown right now.

              Our schools are closing, teachers are being laid-off and there is no light at the end of the tunnel.

              We are in a world of hurt right now in my little neck of woods.

              It is not just the school department but also the city and state budgets are in a state of crisis.

              Fiscally speaking, we are screwed.

              Every time we look at it, the roots of these problems lead back to one big decision in 2002.

              John W. McCain, Bush's third term.

              by aaraujo on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 06:40:44 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Profiles in Courage (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    panicbean

    The drumbeat for war was very strong in the wake of the republican propaganda maxhine and scared shitless democrats with no spine.

    That book, "Profiles in Courage", was a nice grade school read for me in 1964.

    The most successful war seldom pays for its losses. - Thomas Jefferson

    by Judgment at Nuremberg on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:41:20 PM PDT

  •  Misleading quote (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    OHdog, dogheaven

    Moore says he can't vote for Clinton in the primaries, but that he would vote for her in the general election.  Let's stop this I won't vote for..... nonsense.

    by kto9 on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:47:00 PM PDT

  •  It's morally repugnant to allow a greater evil to (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    decafdyke, Judgment at Nuremberg

    ... occur.

    That's a high horse you got there.  I happen to agree that Hillary is an enabler of perhaps the greatest crime of our century, but you misunderstand both politics and morality.

    Work your butt raw giving Obama the nomination (and consequently the victory), but you abdicate all moral authority when you cast aside your vote in the general should Hillary be the Dem nominee.

    Two war crimes make 'the right', not 'a right'. Defeat the liar John McCain.

    by Yellow Canary on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:50:01 PM PDT

  •  the iraq war is nothing (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    stridergambit, Judgment at Nuremberg

    compared to her voting to instigate war with iran

    she learned NOTHING from her iraq mistake and that almost says more than anything - i can't believe she hasn't been questioned more on that

    can we stop threatening war and actually, as obama will do, sit down and talk with other nations?   hillary is from a mindset that you can force people to do things and obama believes in diplomacy

    "we are the ones we've been waiting for " - Barack Obama

    by eastcoaster on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:54:10 PM PDT

  •  I guess I'll never understand those who would (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    decembersue, panicbean

    sleep better at night because they did nothing to prevent the slaughter of innocent children (since that choice was not pure enough). Black and white thinking is a disease, McCain is so much worse than Hillary. To not vote as a protest just gets you ignored. Vote your heart in the primaries, but don't let America turn into a totalitarian state by letting McCain win in November.

    Love that "power of the purse!" It looks so nice up there on the mantle (and not the table) next to the "subpoena power."

    by Sacramento Dem on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 07:56:05 PM PDT

  •  Reading through the diarists comments, (0+ / 0-)

    I beleive there is a inherent misunderstanding of what 'morals' means.  

    The diarist seems to misunderstand the inherent values of morals.  Too sad.  But here is wiki on morals:  I chose the morals page that applied to us, seemingly.

    http://meta.wikimedia.org/...

    Good feet giving up good boots. http://www.bringthemhomenow.org/

    by panicbean on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:08:57 PM PDT

  •  Did Michael Moore (0+ / 0-)

    'just find his morality?'

    Why did he wait until AFTER Super Tuesday to endorse?

    Trust him to be president, trust him to run his campaign.

    by pvlb on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:12:08 PM PDT

  •  I'm morally prohibited from watching Jane Fonda (0+ / 0-)

    movies. Well, except for Cat Ballou. That was awesome. OK and maybe Barbarella. She was hot in that. As for Michael Moore movies, I'm in no hurry to watch them. Though in his defense, I would watch his movies before I would watch another Tom Cruise flick.

    "Never have so few taken so much from so many for so long."

    by londubh on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 08:40:03 PM PDT

  •  if you can not quote moore accurately (0+ / 0-)

    then please delete the diary.

    you premise an entire diary on an intentional misrepresentation of michael moore's comment.  he was crystal clear that he was speaking about the PRIMARIES and not the general election.  you refuse to be.

    correct it or delete the diary, please.

    _______________

    it's their screen name because they couldn't figure out how to spell "moran."

    -9.75 (e), -7.18 (s)

    by dadanation on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 10:03:30 PM PDT

    •  The quote is directly from his website (0+ / 0-)

      nothing has been added nor removed.

      Please provide a link to the full quote, if you have it and I will update it but I do not see it anywhere.

      John W. McCain, Bush's third term.

      by aaraujo on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 06:35:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  you refuse to even admit your error or bias (0+ / 0-)

        which says a lot more about this diary and your point in publishing it than i cared to know.

        for shame.

        here is the exact phrasing of what michael moore said on Larry King:

        "I am morally prohibited from voting for Hillary in the primaries because of her war votes, I mean that not as a personal attack against her, but I simply can’t side with somebody who participated, whether willingly or unknowingly, as she claims, in something that has been so evil."

        and here is a link to the video where moore says this VERBATIM on Larry King.  go to about 1:45 seconds into the clip.

        so now -- correct or delete...

        _______________

        it's their screen name because they couldn't figure out how to spell "moran."

        -9.75 (e), -7.18 (s)

        by dadanation on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 11:18:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It has been updated (0+ / 0-)

          now will you email Micheal Moore and tell him to do so on his website?

          http://www.michaelmoore.com/...

          John W. McCain, Bush's third term.

          by aaraujo on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 11:47:50 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  no i will not (0+ / 0-)

            you wrote the diary and you were asked to do this yesterday and rather than address this then, you have waited until i simply googled for the video clip?

            take some ownership over your error (which you were informed of YESTERDAY) and e-mail mr moore yourself.  

            after all if you took the comment DIRECTLY from his web-site then it essence, his own redaction of his own comment on larry king is what got you in this mess.

            _______________

            it's their screen name because they couldn't figure out how to spell "moran."

            -9.75 (e), -7.18 (s)

            by dadanation on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 12:08:40 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  That quote is an exact quote (0+ / 0-)

              from his website.  Again, nothing has been changed.  that is what Michael Moore, himself, wants transmitted to the world.

              John W. McCain, Bush's third term.

              by aaraujo on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 12:20:18 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  what is most unsettling (0+ / 0-)

                is that you clearly did not even bother to click on the video that the EXCERPT that you claim to be intended to be his EXACT words are taken from.,

                had you done but on be step of due diligence you would have heard for yourself moore's exact quotation.

                your fall-back position, that those are his exact words, does not hold water when you click on the link and hear him say EXACTLY verbatim his EXACT quotation which is expressly and explicitly only dealing with the PRIMARIES.

                it is sad that you did not bother to check out the video that the "quote" from moore is there on his site for.

                you may want to express to mr moore how the ambiguity of his abbreviated quotation has caused you some unnecessary consternation - had he been precise in his reproduction of the exact quote (thereby saving you the responsibility of due diligence and checking of the source material and all those other attendant and responsible things to do before launching as diary that ultimately is not corroborated by the source) you would not be in such a pickle.

                that's what i would tell him -- it is his fault that you did not bother to verify the quotation by simply clicking on the link to the video on his own site right there alongside the quotation/abbreviation.

                _______________

                it's their screen name because they couldn't figure out how to spell "moran."

                -9.75 (e), -7.18 (s)

                by dadanation on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 12:34:07 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  the factual misrepresentation has NOT been fixed (0+ / 0-)

            you simply redacted a bit more of the moore quotation, that's all.

            what you have not yet done in correcting the diary is to be up front with the readers that moore made that comment specifically about the PRIMARIES.  period.

            your extrapolation of moore's position -- again, solely about the primaries - is your own choice and has nothing to do with mr moore.

            you take his comment and build your own fortress with it -- yet you want to use moore as your cover.

            this is not only unfair but wrong.

            you want to make the comment say more than it does, and your intransigence in fixing the diary is really unacceptable.

            _______________

            it's their screen name because they couldn't figure out how to spell "moran."

            -9.75 (e), -7.18 (s)

            by dadanation on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 12:39:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Where is the link to the transcript? (0+ / 0-)

          i cannot find it

          John W. McCain, Bush's third term.

          by aaraujo on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 11:57:40 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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